Questions and Answers

Estimates Committee B (Cox)
Thursday 26 June 2008
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Visibility of Police Guns
Mr FINCH - Minister, I would be interested in our new commissioner's response to this - I have long had concerns about the policy of police carrying guns. When I was a young person I do not think I ever saw a police officer with a gun but I always was aware that they either had them in the glovebox or had them hidden on their person. I get a bit concerned about this process we have been through of removing guns from society, destroying them and working diligently to try to keep them out of society so that they are not a focus yet our police officers are wandering around with these huge guns. I will never forget in Melbourne one time, walking up behind a young constable and I do not think he suspected there was anybody walking behind him, he was walking through the street and I am sure he thought he was in El Paso. It was like High Noon and he looked as if he was about to draw his gun and shoot somebody. It was the most confronting body language I have ever seen from a police officer. We have this policy of removing guns from society, yet here are police with these huge weapons on their person. I am not averse to police having guns, that is not an issue, because there are villains out there, but I would appreciate it much more if they were not visible.

Mr COX - It is probably a very difficult request. I do not know that we disagree with you but if you have an officer in the summer walking with a shirt and the big belt on with all the gear I am not too sure where you suggest they put the gun - and I probably do not want to know.

Mr FINCH - There are leg holsters to wear underneath their trousers.

Mr JOHNSTON - Unfortunately from an occupational health and safety point of view they are not suitable. I am sure some around this table would have heard the anecdotes of the old leg holsters years ago when the detectives went to the odd dance or cabaret and their firearm scooted across the dance floor. I am sure we do not want that happening any more - if it ever happened then, I might add.

Mr FINCH - It was the situation in the UK where it was understood that police did not carry guns. Those circumstances may have changed.

Mr JOHNSTON - I think the simple answer, Mr Finch, is, as the Minister said, irrespective of our personal views around these things, I felt the safety considerations and the risk assessment would suggest that even if we wanted to there would be no way of disarming Tasmania Police to the extent even to which you have alluded. We have had the shooting of a police officer in recent times unfortunately and I am sure that just adds weight to the argument that says whilst it is undesirable, whilst we would love to be in a society where they do not have to carry them, it is not the case at the moment.

Mr FINCH - But they do not need to be in a situation where they have to go the quick draw.

Mr JOHNSTON - I am sure that a lot of my operational police would argue with you, Mr Finch. They want to make them accessible at the time of need instead of being shot and then having to crawl their way back to a car to find it in the glove box where it may not be stored in accordance with the legislation.

To assuage part of your concerns, the Deputy Commissioner recently issued a directive to all of our plain clothes personnel that they are not to walk around with exposed firearms in public places. So even in the summertime a detective walking down the street to get a cup of coffee will have to ensure that his firearm is concealed.

Mr FINCH - And uniform police?

Mr JOHNSTON - No unfortunately.

Mr COX - They can't do it.

Mr JOHNSTON - As the Minister said, they have nowhere to conceal theirs. Maybe if I put them all back into tunics like the one I am wearing where it would go over the top of the gun that might change, but gee that would cause a debate.

Mr COX - It is probably not a problem I want as Minister, thank you Commissioner.

Mr FINCH - I would probably suggest a way of arming a police officer but without it being quite so visible; whether there was a way of more concealment, even on the belt that they carry. It just looks very confronting to see our police officers in Tasmania, which is a fairly law-abiding State, have this overt show of firearms.

Mr WING - We can only hope that it will not be necessary for police officers to have automatic rifles and guns as they do in Whitehall in London and many other countries.

Mr COX - We share your wish, Mr Wing.

Mrs JAMIESON - I want to raise the question of capsicum spray. What counts as a threat in Tasmania and how often has it been used?

Mr JOHNSTON - I cannot remember the numbers but I can assure you that the use of capsicum spray is on the increase and I think I should be pretty happy about that because it usually means that there are fewer physical acts of violence either to members of the public or from members of the public on the police because it creates an at-length response. So it works very well.

Mrs JAMIESON - To your knowledge, have there been any reported allergies to it? Have people come back and said, 'Hey man, I am allergic to it'?

Mr JOHNSTON - Not here. I know there are very limited numbers in other States but I am not aware of any here.