Monday 2 June 2003

WEEDS - CAT CONTROL - 1080 POISON

Mr FINCH - If I could just make a comment here or ask a question? Is enough being done? Is enough being done by the department in respect of working with landowners and property owners to help get on top of this issue of weeds? The cooperation is there, you recognise it. You get your local council to do it but can the Government do more in support of the circumstance where you need to get on top of the problem?

Mr GREEN - I think that, as Alex was saying there a little while ago, in the last two years we have had two training courses for State and local government community weed strategy officers and those people were trained because they are interested in becoming weed officers and inspectors. We have had 89 officers, including 53 Quarantine staff, who have now been appointed as weed inspectors and of course we will support these people through that process.

The point that the Chair made in relation to fines and issues associated with that, as Alex quite rightly pointed out, is part of the Weed Management Act 1999. I guess it's about how we approach this as a community overall. I'm sure if I started insisting on the department being out there handing out fines and doing all those sorts of things with regard to management of weeds then I would probably get the adverse reaction that I wouldn't be seeking as a result of doing just that. There are cases of weed management on private land that has worked very well and will continue to work well. The fact that we have officers trained and working and looking at all of these various issues associated with it will at least control it. Then there are examples - as I indicated when I was talking about gorse in particular - where rice grass has been attacked and it has become a community focus, as has pampas grass, that has shown some very positive results.

We have legislation that came in in 1999. Gorse is one that is raised regularly. I am not sure when it first came to Tasmania but it has been around a long, long time. Many people are making a living out of gorse eradication because private landowners themselves recognise that much of their arable land is under gorse and they are not being very productive unless they do something about it. Although I was talking to one farmer who relies very heavily on gorse in some areas of his farm to give shelter to ewes during lambing et cetera so it has a place in some areas.

I think that, of course, you could point to a whole heap of funding that we could put into gorse and other weed management but on balance we believe that the management strategies we have in place are appropriate for the time and if there is some sort of a windfall in the future that may allow us to put more money in, we will certainly look to do that.

[4.45 p.m.]

Mr EVANS - Adding to what the minister said, we are going through a natural resource management planning process at the regional level at the moment with the three regions developing their natural resource management strategies for the north and the north-west and the south. Those strategies will identify the priorities in which we invest future NHT moneys and if through those strategies weeds are identified as the number one priority then you would expect a fair bit of the NHT investment in the future to go into weeds.

Alternatively, if it was another issue that was identified through the strategies, investments would go into those areas. There will be the opportunities with the new NRM strategies to invest in addressing the community's highest priorities and if that is weeds you would expect to see more money going into weeds in the future.

CHAIR - If I might just follow up on one comment the minister made about the pampas grass. Certainly the removal of pampas grass was a successful campaign, but isn't it a fact that the focus was there very strongly because it was going to have a significant effect on our forestry? Therefore, it was seen as quite urgent to dispose of pampas grass. There were people driving into properties saying, 'We will come and dispose of that pampas grass for you' because of the severe concerns about what it would do to forestry. That very quick, short, sharp strategy appeared to work very well and yet in my opinion we have dawdled along with some of these other weeds that are having the same sorts of effects on cleared grasslands.

Mr GREEN - I beg to differ with you. It might have had an impact on forestry, as have other weeds like broom and gorse over time. I have not spent an enormous amount of time in New Zealand but infestation of pampas grass there was, in the main, on cleared areas as opposed to forested areas and closed out tracts of grazing land that used to be available. I think that the urgency for pampas grass removal was the fact that people saw that if we did not get onto it very quickly after one male plant being brought into the State - all the pampas grass that existed before was female - there were no males here, is that right Alex?

Mr SCHAPP - One or the other.

Laughter.

Mr GREEN - Anyway, mysteriously, one of the two genders appeared and all of a sudden, bang, they had the opportunity to proliferate. People were planting pampas grass as windbreaks and all sorts of things for many years - it was a good place for rabbits to live under as well - and then all of a sudden we had this situation where they were starting to spread along the side of the roads and people could see straightaway that if we didn't do something about it we would have a New Zealand revisited. It is very difficult to get rid of and, you are right, it has been a success. Even I noticed one at Railton the other day and I got straight onto it, I mentioned it.

CHAIR - Thank you. Foxes?

Mr FINCH - Just to come back to that subject - as referred to in the Legislative Council by some unkind person as the' task-free fox force' –

Laughter.

Mr FINCH - However, I did have a briefing from Parks and Wildlife in Launceston, which I appreciated very much and I understand the strategy that at the end of the day we to be able to say there are none here. That will be a good result, I understand that, but we also had a briefing at the same time about domestic cats, feral cats, that were escaping into the bush areas in Tasmania and decimating Tasmanian wildlife. There was talk then about why couldn't the two issues be coupled up and while the people are doing their work with foxes they in fact could take on the feral cat issue at the same time. That is not the case. I understand the focus has to be on the one, but at the end of this process with the Fox Task Force, will they have skills and knowledge that will enable them to perhaps move into the feral cat situation?

Mr GREEN - As you would probably be aware, as a result of the meeting we had successful cat eradication programs held on Macquarie Island which has been a shining example of a carnivorous feral animal being removed from an environment where they should not have been. Having said that, the State overall has many people who are cat lovers. Cats are family pets and they are all fine normally, although most people don't know where they are at night. The issue is that cats themselves are part of the domestic scene in the State. So anything you do with regard to feral cats in the future is about having a situation where domestic cats are controlled in such a way that we do not have them breeding and being dumped and all of those other issues associated with how feral cats get into the wild in the first place, or cats just going wild as a result of neglect or whatever.

In terms of the skills associated with it, there is work going on from the point of long-term management options such as a specific cat toxin, which is apparently showing very good results. When I was first given the opportunity of being minister for this portfolio, I received some correspondence from none other than the Honourable Michael Polley, Speaker of the House of Assembly, who was enquiring as to the issue about actually shooting cats on crown land, and the advice I received in return as a result of Stephen's advice was that you could not shoot a cat on crown land because you could not identify the actual ownership of that cat, which surprised me because I have shot a few cats on crown land.

Laughter .

Mr FINCH - Before you were a minister of course - back in your younger days.

Mr GREEN - Yes, that's right; I failed to identify who owned them. So what we need to do is make sure in a way that is acceptable to all that we allow first of all cats to be disposed of or hunted if they are obviously wild or feral. In the second place, it is the policy of the Fox Task Force, whenever they get the opportunity, to shoot injured cats that in some way resemble a fox because a lot of the sightings that we get are of big ginger cats and so if we have repeat sightings we make sure that we target that feral cat which saves our Fox Task Force people a lot of unnecessary work.

But it is true, they are building up skills, because we want this State to be fox-free, although it is unlikely after that that we are going to then move into becoming feral cat-free. What we have to do is establish the best way we can, management regimes that allow for the minimisation of harm of feral cats in the system. Part of that is good public policy in relation to cat management. We have done it with regard to dogs. Cats are harder but that does not mean we should not work through that and the Premier has given a commitment that once we work through the issues with the community we will bring in good public policy with regard to domestic cats in the State.

Mr FINCH - Would that mean licensing? You were talking about them being domestic animals.

Mr GREEN - Don't try to put words in my mouth, Kerry.

Laughter .

Mr GREEN - They are the things we will have to work through with local government and others who are responsible. Personally I think that we do need to have desexing and all those sorts of things as almost mandatory unless you have the intention to breed cats, and then you would have to be a licensed breeder. Otherwise it is going to be very difficult to get on top of the problem with cats. Go to any farm in particular around the State and you will normally find that there are a number of cats running around there. I was at one the other day that had many cats running around.

Mr FINCH - At Mr Hall's property, were you?

Mr GREEN - No, he has never invited me.

CHAIR - They are usually dumped at the end of the road by people from town, I might add.

Mr GREEN - It is always a bit of a chilling thing if you are, say, out at the western lakes or a long way from civilisation and then all of a sudden there it is, this normally huge, feral cat. You know what it is up to and it is not a good sight in a natural environment because they can have devastating effects on that environment.

Mr FINCH - Is there any evidence that their numbers are increasing?

Mr GREEN - I could not say, Kerry. Cats have been around obviously for as long as we have in Tasmania. I would not be able to give you any evidence.

Not that long ago I was down the Arthur-Pieman and I saw, halfway between the Arthur and the Pieman rivers, a big cat run across the road away down there, so whether they have over time spread further into the wilder parts of the State I cannot be sure. There are not too many places that I have been that I have not seen feral cats.

Mr DEAN - Just one on the native animals again. Under major issues and initiatives of 2003-04 I refer to dot point on page 417, and that is improving management of native wildlife and expanding game management with a trial of native game and working out some alternatives to 1080. The question was raised previously in another area by Kerry in relation to myxomatosis. What is the department doing in regard to expanding game management to control these animals? What is in the melting pot?

Mr GREEN - Well, you have touched on a very good point. You mentioned 1080, which has been the catalyst for why you would want to have proper game-management practices in place in Tasmania. There is a lot said about 1080 as an issue and we are committed to trying to meet the targets set in the Tasmania Together process to reduce the amount of 1080 that is used in the State. I think that we are down to somewhere around 9 and a bit kilograms of 1080 compared to say 12 or 13 kilograms. There has been a reduction over time.

Part of the reason for that is we have established the game-management unit, which is responsible for that interface between landowners and hunters who, in many respects, can provide the control mechanisms for browsing animals in particular on farms and make some use of them instead of having them poisoned. This to me is the best way, the only sensible way, giving recognition to the fact that from a browsing animal's point of view in Tasmania there are many more browsing animals - wallabies, bennetts, rufous and brush-tailed possums - from pre-European settlement and that is as a result of the interface between farmers, the way that we have provided much better feed and all of those things for those animals.

We are serious about meeting those targets and ensuring that we do our best to facilitate that. As a result of that the Government is committed to the provision of additional resources for the game-management service unit. An additional State-funded game-management position was created in Launceston in January this year and my department is currently in the process of appointing two further staff members. The two further staff members will have a specific focus on the extension of advice and information to land-holders on alternatives to the use of 1080.

[5.00 p.m.]

I mentioned in response to an earlier question with regard to research farms that the game-management unit will be moving out to Cressy to better service many of its clients. The area covered by game-management plans in Tasmania has risen to over 1.1 million hectares and the number of properties has passed 330. Furthermore, the program is being implemented on over 500 000 hectares in three mainland States as well, which has all come about as a result of us having that responsibility here. From this year the game-management service unit is also responsible for managing the duck hunting season in conjunction with the wildlife section of the nature conservation branch. The game-management service unit will also be responsible for coordinating the February duck counts and liaison with duck hunters and waterfowl management concerning waterfowl management issues outside the season. I think it is a very good example of how hunters and property owners can work together to make some changes with regard to 1080 use and it has a flow on effect beyond that. There have always been issues with hunters and private property - people going on and not being able to get on and all those things - that have meant that the relationship between farmers and hunters in particular hasn't been that good from time to time over the years. But with properly gauged base management systems you see reward for effort for people. There are some amazing examples of farmers benefiting from property game management, hunters benefiting from being able to have sure access and feeling as though they are part of something and doing something in a responsible way to, in most cases, facilitate the recreational opportunity they love.

Mr HALL - Thank you, Madam Chair, and I would like to thank Mr Finch for pointing out just how many cats I do have on my property. I will say that they are specifically trained to deal local vermin only.

WEEDS - CAT CONTROL - 1080 POISON

Mr FINCH - If I could just make a comment here or ask a question? Is enough being done? Is enough being done by the department in respect of working with landowners and property owners to help get on top of this issue of weeds? The cooperation is there, you recognise it. You get your local council to do it but can the Government do more in support of the circumstance where you need to get on top of the problem?

Mr GREEN - I think that, as Alex was saying there a little while ago, in the last two years we have had two training courses for State and local government community weed strategy officers and those people were trained because they are interested in becoming weed officers and inspectors. We have had 89 officers, including 53 Quarantine staff, who have now been appointed as weed inspectors and of course we will support these people through that process.

The point that the Chair made in relation to fines and issues associated with that, as Alex quite rightly pointed out, is part of the Weed Management Act 1999. I guess it's about how we approach this as a community overall. I'm sure if I started insisting on the department being out there handing out fines and doing all those sorts of things with regard to management of weeds then I would probably get the adverse reaction that I wouldn't be seeking as a result of doing just that. There are cases of weed management on private land that has worked very well and will continue to work well. The fact that we have officers trained and working and looking at all of these various issues associated with it will at least control it. Then there are examples - as I indicated when I was talking about gorse in particular - where rice grass has been attacked and it has become a community focus, as has pampas grass, that has shown some very positive results.

We have legislation that came in in 1999. Gorse is one that is raised regularly. I am not sure when it first came to Tasmania but it has been around a long, long time. Many people are making a living out of gorse eradication because private landowners themselves recognise that much of their arable land is under gorse and they are not being very productive unless they do something about it. Although I was talking to one farmer who relies very heavily on gorse in some areas of his farm to give shelter to ewes during lambing et cetera so it has a place in some areas.

I think that, of course, you could point to a whole heap of funding that we could put into gorse and other weed management but on balance we believe that the management strategies we have in place are appropriate for the time and if there is some sort of a windfall in the future that may allow us to put more money in, we will certainly look to do that.

[4.45 p.m.]

Mr EVANS - Adding to what the minister said, we are going through a natural resource management planning process at the regional level at the moment with the three regions developing their natural resource management strategies for the north and the north-west and the south. Those strategies will identify the priorities in which we invest future NHT moneys and if through those strategies weeds are identified as the number one priority then you would expect a fair bit of the NHT investment in the future to go into weeds.

Alternatively, if it was another issue that was identified through the strategies, investments would go into those areas. There will be the opportunities with the new NRM strategies to invest in addressing the community's highest priorities and if that is weeds you would expect to see more money going into weeds in the future.

CHAIR - If I might just follow up on one comment the minister made about the pampas grass. Certainly the removal of pampas grass was a successful campaign, but isn't it a fact that the focus was there very strongly because it was going to have a significant effect on our forestry? Therefore, it was seen as quite urgent to dispose of pampas grass. There were people driving into properties saying, 'We will come and dispose of that pampas grass for you' because of the severe concerns about what it would do to forestry. That very quick, short, sharp strategy appeared to work very well and yet in my opinion we have dawdled along with some of these other weeds that are having the same sorts of effects on cleared grasslands.

Mr GREEN - I beg to differ with you. It might have had an impact on forestry, as have other weeds like broom and gorse over time. I have not spent an enormous amount of time in New Zealand but infestation of pampas grass there was, in the main, on cleared areas as opposed to forested areas and closed out tracts of grazing land that used to be available. I think that the urgency for pampas grass removal was the fact that people saw that if we did not get onto it very quickly after one male plant being brought into the State - all the pampas grass that existed before was female - there were no males here, is that right Alex?

Mr SCHAPP - One or the other.

Laughter.

Mr GREEN - Anyway, mysteriously, one of the two genders appeared and all of a sudden, bang, they had the opportunity to proliferate. People were planting pampas grass as windbreaks and all sorts of things for many years - it was a good place for rabbits to live under as well - and then all of a sudden we had this situation where they were starting to spread along the side of the roads and people could see straightaway that if we didn't do something about it we would have a New Zealand revisited. It is very difficult to get rid of and, you are right, it has been a success. Even I noticed one at Railton the other day and I got straight onto it, I mentioned it.

CHAIR - Thank you. Foxes?

Mr FINCH - Just to come back to that subject - as referred to in the Legislative Council by some unkind person as the' task-free fox force' –

Laughter.

Mr FINCH - However, I did have a briefing from Parks and Wildlife in Launceston, which I appreciated very much and I understand the strategy that at the end of the day we to be able to say there are none here. That will be a good result, I understand that, but we also had a briefing at the same time about domestic cats, feral cats, that were escaping into the bush areas in Tasmania and decimating Tasmanian wildlife. There was talk then about why couldn't the two issues be coupled up and while the people are doing their work with foxes they in fact could take on the feral cat issue at the same time. That is not the case. I understand the focus has to be on the one, but at the end of this process with the Fox Task Force, will they have skills and knowledge that will enable them to perhaps move into the feral cat situation?

Mr GREEN - As you would probably be aware, as a result of the meeting we had successful cat eradication programs held on Macquarie Island which has been a shining example of a carnivorous feral animal being removed from an environment where they should not have been. Having said that, the State overall has many people who are cat lovers. Cats are family pets and they are all fine normally, although most people don't know where they are at night. The issue is that cats themselves are part of the domestic scene in the State. So anything you do with regard to feral cats in the future is about having a situation where domestic cats are controlled in such a way that we do not have them breeding and being dumped and all of those other issues associated with how feral cats get into the wild in the first place, or cats just going wild as a result of neglect or whatever.

In terms of the skills associated with it, there is work going on from the point of long-term management options such as a specific cat toxin, which is apparently showing very good results. When I was first given the opportunity of being minister for this portfolio, I received some correspondence from none other than the Honourable Michael Polley, Speaker of the House of Assembly, who was enquiring as to the issue about actually shooting cats on crown land, and the advice I received in return as a result of Stephen's advice was that you could not shoot a cat on crown land because you could not identify the actual ownership of that cat, which surprised me because I have shot a few cats on crown land.

Laughter .

Mr FINCH - Before you were a minister of course - back in your younger days.

Mr GREEN - Yes, that's right; I failed to identify who owned them. So what we need to do is make sure in a way that is acceptable to all that we allow first of all cats to be disposed of or hunted if they are obviously wild or feral. In the second place, it is the policy of the Fox Task Force, whenever they get the opportunity, to shoot injured cats that in some way resemble a fox because a lot of the sightings that we get are of big ginger cats and so if we have repeat sightings we make sure that we target that feral cat which saves our Fox Task Force people a lot of unnecessary work.

But it is true, they are building up skills, because we want this State to be fox-free, although it is unlikely after that that we are going to then move into becoming feral cat-free. What we have to do is establish the best way we can, management regimes that allow for the minimisation of harm of feral cats in the system. Part of that is good public policy in relation to cat management. We have done it with regard to dogs. Cats are harder but that does not mean we should not work through that and the Premier has given a commitment that once we work through the issues with the community we will bring in good public policy with regard to domestic cats in the State.

Mr FINCH - Would that mean licensing? You were talking about them being domestic animals.

Mr GREEN - Don't try to put words in my mouth, Kerry.

Laughter .

Mr GREEN - They are the things we will have to work through with local government and others who are responsible. Personally I think that we do need to have desexing and all those sorts of things as almost mandatory unless you have the intention to breed cats, and then you would have to be a licensed breeder. Otherwise it is going to be very difficult to get on top of the problem with cats. Go to any farm in particular around the State and you will normally find that there are a number of cats running around there. I was at one the other day that had many cats running around.

Mr FINCH - At Mr Hall's property, were you?

Mr GREEN - No, he has never invited me.

CHAIR - They are usually dumped at the end of the road by people from town, I might add.

Mr GREEN - It is always a bit of a chilling thing if you are, say, out at the western lakes or a long way from civilisation and then all of a sudden there it is, this normally huge, feral cat. You know what it is up to and it is not a good sight in a natural environment because they can have devastating effects on that environment.

Mr FINCH - Is there any evidence that their numbers are increasing?

Mr GREEN - I could not say, Kerry. Cats have been around obviously for as long as we have in Tasmania. I would not be able to give you any evidence.

Not that long ago I was down the Arthur-Pieman and I saw, halfway between the Arthur and the Pieman rivers, a big cat run across the road away down there, so whether they have over time spread further into the wilder parts of the State I cannot be sure. There are not too many places that I have been that I have not seen feral cats.

Mr DEAN - Just one on the native animals again. Under major issues and initiatives of 2003-04 I refer to dot point on page 417, and that is improving management of native wildlife and expanding game management with a trial of native game and working out some alternatives to 1080. The question was raised previously in another area by Kerry in relation to myxomatosis. What is the department doing in regard to expanding game management to control these animals? What is in the melting pot?

Mr GREEN - Well, you have touched on a very good point. You mentioned 1080, which has been the catalyst for why you would want to have proper game-management practices in place in Tasmania. There is a lot said about 1080 as an issue and we are committed to trying to meet the targets set in the Tasmania Together process to reduce the amount of 1080 that is used in the State. I think that we are down to somewhere around 9 and a bit kilograms of 1080 compared to say 12 or 13 kilograms. There has been a reduction over time.

Part of the reason for that is we have established the game-management unit, which is responsible for that interface between landowners and hunters who, in many respects, can provide the control mechanisms for browsing animals in particular on farms and make some use of them instead of having them poisoned. This to me is the best way, the only sensible way, giving recognition to the fact that from a browsing animal's point of view in Tasmania there are many more browsing animals - wallabies, bennetts, rufous and brush-tailed possums - from pre-European settlement and that is as a result of the interface between farmers, the way that we have provided much better feed and all of those things for those animals.

We are serious about meeting those targets and ensuring that we do our best to facilitate that. As a result of that the Government is committed to the provision of additional resources for the game-management service unit. An additional State-funded game-management position was created in Launceston in January this year and my department is currently in the process of appointing two further staff members. The two further staff members will have a specific focus on the extension of advice and information to land-holders on alternatives to the use of 1080.

[5.00 p.m.]

I mentioned in response to an earlier question with regard to research farms that the game-management unit will be moving out to Cressy to better service many of its clients. The area covered by game-management plans in Tasmania has risen to over 1.1 million hectares and the number of properties has passed 330. Furthermore, the program is being implemented on over 500 000 hectares in three mainland States as well, which has all come about as a result of us having that responsibility here. From this year the game-management service unit is also responsible for managing the duck hunting season in conjunction with the wildlife section of the nature conservation branch. The game-management service unit will also be responsible for coordinating the February duck counts and liaison with duck hunters and waterfowl management concerning waterfowl management issues outside the season. I think it is a very good example of how hunters and property owners can work together to make some changes with regard to 1080 use and it has a flow on effect beyond that. There have always been issues with hunters and private property - people going on and not being able to get on and all those things - that have meant that the relationship between farmers and hunters in particular hasn't been that good from time to time over the years. But with properly gauged base management systems you see reward for effort for people. There are some amazing examples of farmers benefiting from property game management, hunters benefiting from being able to have sure access and feeling as though they are part of something and doing something in a responsible way to, in most cases, facilitate the recreational opportunity they love.

Mr HALL - Thank you, Madam Chair, and I would like to thank Mr Finch for pointing out just how many cats I do have on my property. I will say that they are specifically trained to deal local vermin only.